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Thread: [ngobrol] Bunga Bank bukan riba?

  1. #181
    pelanggan setia Ronggolawe's Avatar
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    cerita menarik tentang "goldsmith" dalam mengeks
    ploitasi sumber daya manusia lain, Bleg

    http://www.michaeljournal.org/myth.htm
    maaf kalau terlalu panjang untuk diter
    The Money Myth Exploded

    The financial enigma resolved — A debt-money system

    français español italiano português Deutsch po polsku

    by Louis Even

    “The Money Myth Exploded” was one of the first articles of Louis Even, and remains one of the most popular to explain how money is created as a debt by private banks. It is available in the form of an 8-page leaflet (tabloid format) that you can order from the “Michael” office, in several languages: English, French, Spanish, Italian, German, Polish, Portuguese.

    1. Shipwreck survivors

    An explosion had blown their ship apart. Each one grasped the first bit of wreckage that came to hand. And when it was over, there were five left, five huddled on a raft which the waves carried along at their will. As for the other victims of the disaster, there was no sign of them.

    Hour after long hour their eyes searched the horizon. Would some passing ship sight them? Would their make-shift raft finds its way to some friendly shore?

    Suddenly a cry rang out: “Land! Look! Over there, in the direction the waves are carrying us!”

    And as the vague silhouette proved itself to be, in fact, the outline of a shore, the figures on the raft danced with joy.

    They were five. There was Frank, the carpenter, big and energetic. It was he who had first cried, “Land!”.

    Then Paul, a farmer. You can see him, front and left in the picture, on his knees, one hand against the floor, the other gripping the mast of the raft.

    Next is Jim, an animal breeder; he's the one in the striped pants, kneeling and gazing in the direction of land.

    Then there is Harry, an agriculturist, a little on the stout side, seated on a trunk salvaged from the wreck.

    And finally Tom, a prospector and a mineralogist; he is the merry fellow standing in the rear of the picture with his hand on the carpenter's shoulder.

    2. A providential island

    To our five men, setting foot on land was like returning to life from the grave.

    When they had dried and warmed themselves their first impulse was to explore this little island on to which they had been cast, far from civilization.

    A quick survey was sufficient to raise their spirit. The island was not a barren rock. True enough, they were the only men on it at the moment. But judging from the herds of semi-domesticated animals they encountered, there must have been men here at some time before them. Jim, the animal breeder, was sure he could completely domesticate them and put them to good service.

    Paul found the island's soil, for the most part, to be quite suitable for cultivation.

    Harry discovered some fruit trees which, if properly tended, would give good harvests.

    Most important were the large stands of timber embracing many types of wood. Frank, without too much difficulty, would be able to build houses for the little community.

    As for Tom, the prospector, well, the rock formations of the island showed signs of rich mineral deposits. Lacking the tools, Tom still felt his ingenuity and initiative could produce metals from the ores.

    So each could serve the common good with his special talent. All agreed to call the place Salvation Island. All gave thanks to Providence for the reasonably happy ending to what could have been stark tragedy.

    3. True wealth

    Here are the men at work.

    The carpenter builds houses and makes furniture. At first they find their food where they can. But soon the fields are tilled and seeded, and the farmer has his crops.

    As season followed season this island, this heritage of the five men, Salvation Island, became richer and richer.

    Its wealth was not that of gold or of paper bank notes, but one of true value; a wealth of food and clothing and shelter, of all the things to meet human needs.

    Each man worked at his own trade. Whatever surpluses he might have of his own produce, he exchanged for the surplus products of the others.

    Life wasn't always as smooth and complete as they could have wished it to be. They lacked many of the things to which they had been accustomed in civilization. But their lot could have been a great deal worse.

    Besides, all had experienced the depression in Canada. They still remembered the empty bellies side by side with stores crammed with food.

    At least, on Salvation Island, they weren't forced to see the things they needed rot before their eyes. Taxes were unknown here. Nor did they go in constant fear of seizure by the bailiff. They worked hard but at least they could enjoy the fruits of their toil.

    So they developed the island, thanking God and hoping for the day of reunion with their families, still in possession of life and health, those two greatest of blessings.

    4. A serious inconvenience

    Our men often got together to talk over their affairs.

    Under the simple economic system which had developed, one thing was beginning to bother then more and more; they had no form of money. Barter, the direct exchange of goods for goods, had its drawbacks. The products to be exchanged were not always at hand when a trade was discussed. For example, wood delivered to the farmer in winter could not be paid for in potatoes until six months later.

    Sometimes one man might have an article of considerable size which he wished to exchange for a number of smaller articles produced by different men at different times.

    All this complicated business and laid a heavy burden on the memory. With a monetary system, however, each one could sell his products to the others for money. With this money he could buy from the others the things he wanted, when he wished and when they were available.

    It was agreed that a system of money would indeed be very convenient. But none of them knew how to set up such a system. They knew how to produce true wealth - goods. But how to produce money, the symbol of this wealth, was something quite beyond them. They were ignorant of the origin of money, and needing it they didn't know how to produce it. Certainly, many men of education would have been in the same boat; all our governments were in that predicament during the ten years prior to the war. The only thing the country lacked at that time was money, and the governments apparently didn't know what to do to get it.

    5. Arrival of a refugee

    One evening, when our boys were sitting on the beach going over their problem for the hundredth time, they suddenly saw approaching a small boat with a solitary man at the oars.

    They learned that he was the only survivor of a wreck. His name: Oliver.

    Delighted to have a new companion, they provided him with the best that they had, and they took him on an inspection tour of the colony.

    “Even though we're lost and cut off from the rest of the world,” they told him, “we haven't too much to complain about. The earth and the forest are good to us. We lack only one thing — money. That would make it easier for us to exchange our products.”

    “Well, you can thank Providence,” replied Oliver, “because I am a banker, and in no time at all, I'll set up a system of money guaranteed to satisfy you. Then you'll have everything that people in civilization have.”

    A banker!... A BANKER!... An angel coming down out of the clouds couldn't have inspired more reverence and respect in our men. For, after all, are we not accustomed, we people in civilization, to genuflect before bankers, those men who control the lifeblood of finance?

    ---------- Post Merged at 05:00 PM ----------

    6. Civilization's god

    “Mr. Oliver, as our banker, your only occupation on this island will be to look after our money; no manual labour.”

    “I shall, like every other banker, carry out to complete satisfaction my task of forging the community's prosperity.”

    “Mr. Oliver, we're going to build you a house that will be in keeping with your dignity as a banker. But in the meantime, do you mind if we lodge you in the building that we use for our get-togethers?”

    “That will suit me, my friends. But first of all, unload the boat. There's paper and a printing press, complete with ink and type, and there's a little barrel which I exhort you to treat with the greatest care.”

    They unloaded everything. The small barrel aroused intense curiosity in our good fellows.

    “This barrel,” Oliver announced, “contains a treasure beyond dreams. It is full of... gold!”

    Full of gold! The five all but swooned. The god of civilization here on Salvation Island! The yellow god, always hidden, yet terrible in its power, whose presence or absence or slightest caprice could decide the very fate of all the civilized nations!

    “Gold! Mr. Oliver, you are indeed a great banker!”

    “Oh august majesty! Oh honorable Oliver! Great high priest of the god, gold! Accept our humble homage, and receive our oaths of fidelity!”

    “Yes, my friends, gold enough for a continent. But gold is not for circulation. Gold must be hidden. Gold is the soul of healthy money, and the soul is always invisible. But I'll explain all that when you receive your first supply of money.”

    7. The secret burial

    Before they went their separate ways for the night, Oliver asked them one last question.

    “How much money will you need to begin with in order to facilitate trading?”

    They looked at one another, then deferentially towards the banker. After a bit of calculation, and with the advice of the kindly financier, they decided that $200 each would do.

    The men parted, exchanging enthusiastic comments. And in spite of the late hour, they spent most of the night lying awake, their imaginations excited by the picture of gold. It was morning before they slept.

    As for Oliver, he wasted not a moment. Fatigue was forgotten in the interests of his future as a banker. By dawn's first light, he dug a pit into which he rolled the barrel. He then filled it in, transplanting a small shrub to the spot about which he carefully arranged sod. It was well hidden.

    Then he went to work with his little press to turn out a thousand $1 bills. Watching the clean new banknotes come from his press, the refugee turned banker thought to himself:

    “My! How simple it is to make money. All its value comes from the products it will buy. Without produce, these bills are worthless. My five naive customers don't realize that. They actually think that this new money derives its value from gold! Their very ignorance makes me their master.”

    And as evening drew on, the five came to Oliver — on the run.

    8. Who owns the new money?

    Five bundles of new banknotes were sitting on the table.

    “Before distributing the money,” said the banker, “I would like your attention.

    “Now, the basis of all money is gold. And the gold stored away in the vault of my bank is my gold. Consequently, the money is my money. Oh! Don't look so discouraged. I'm going to lend you this money, and you're going to use it as you see fit. However, you'll have to pay interest. Considering that money is scarce here, I don't think 8% is unreasonable.”

    “Oh, that's quite reasonable, Mr. Oliver.”

    “One last point, my friends. Business is business, even between pals. Before you get the money, each of you is going to sign a paper. By it you will bind yourselves to pay both interest and capital under penalty of confiscation of property by me. Oh! This is a mere formality. Your property is of no interest to me. I'm satisfied with money. And I feel sure that I'll get my money, and that you'll keep your property.”

    “That makes sense, Mr. Oliver. We're going to work harder than ever in order to pay you back.”

    “That's the spirit. And any time you have a problem, you come and see me. Your banker is your best friend. Now here's two hundred dollars for each one of you.”

    And our five brave fellows went away, their hands full of dollar bills, their heads swimming with the ecstasy of having money.

    9. A problem in arithmetic

    And so Oliver's money went into circulation on the island. Trade, simplified by money, doubled. Everybody was happy.

    And the banker was always greeted with unfailing respect and gratitude.

    But now, let's see... Why does Tom, the prospector, look so grave as he sits busily figuring with a pencil and paper? It is because Tom, like the others, has signed an agreement to repay Oliver, in one year's time, the $200 plus $16 interest. But Tom has only a few dollars in his pocket, and the date of payment is near.

    For a long time he had wrestled with this problem from his own personal point of view, without success. Finally, he looked at it from the angle of the little community as a whole.

    “Taking into consideration everyone on the island as a whole,” he mused, “are we capable of meeting our obligations? Oliver turned out a total of $1000. He's asking in return $1080. But even if we bring him every dollar bill on the island, we'll still be $80 short. Nobody made the extra $80. We turn out produce, not dollar bills. So Oliver can take over the entire island, since all the inhabitants together can't pay him back the total amount of the capital and the interest.

    “Even if a few, without any thought for the others, were able to do so, those others would fall. And the turn of the first spared would come eventually. The banker will have everything. We'd better hold a meeting right away and decide what to do about it.”

    Tom, with his figures in his hand, had no difficulty in proving the situation. All agreed that they had been duped by the kindly banker. They decided upon a meeting at Oliver's.
    "And this world of armchair bloggers who created a generation of critics instead of leaders, I'm actually doing something. Right here, right now. For the city. For my country. And I'm not doing it alone. You're damn right I'm the hero."

    --Oliver Queen (Smallville)

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by sedgedjenar View Post
    yg harus sholat, harus zakat, harus haji ...itu disebut ahli agama.
    kalo spiritual itu... ah, sudahlah.
    Spirit ...roh..semangat...
    Saya memang tidak memiliki pengetahuan tentang (ahli) spiritual.
    saya setuju dicukupkan sampe disini aja.

    ***

    Quote Originally Posted by hajime_saitoh View Post
    sory sedikit OT mooncying ini kloningan ya????
    Quote Originally Posted by pak Alip View Post
    kok bisa tahu? kloningan siapa tuhhh? *nglirik curiga
    Kloningan ayah bunda .... .
    Ndak kop hajime, pak Alip.
    Di “mooncying” adalah satu-satunya id saya.
    Tapi memanglah sebelum saya mulai posting,
    Saya telah lurking-lurking,
    Menjadi silent reader selama +/- 2 tahun.
    Mengambil manfaat dari postingan-postingan “para pri(per)mata” ....

    ***

    ---------- Post Merged at 06:36 PM ----------


    Quote Originally Posted by hajime_saitoh View Post
    saya kemaren beli buku yang berkaitan dengan perbankan syariah.. karya M. Syafiie Antonio.. ntar kalo saya sudah paham akan saya coba posting hal2 yang berkaitan dengan pembahasan di thread ini
    Kak hajime nanti klo udah slese baca (&ada kelonggaran) share yaa ...
    (langsung kesimpulan aja gak apa-apa)Sebenarnya bank syariah beneran ada perbedaan dengan bank konvensional atau cuma ganti istilah aja. Tapi “dalamnya” tiada beda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ndableg View Post
    Mungkin satu2nya jalan adalah sistem koperasi spt jaman orba, kecil2an aja, buat orang susah doang, tapi harus bersih dari campur tangan orang rakus, dan jelas dgn bantuan pemerintah. Mungkin bisa dimulai dr pemerintahan daerah.
    Hari ini ada yang namanya PNPM Mandiri.
    #ndak ada kaitannya dengan bank Mandiri. Sumber dana PNPM berasal dari pemerintah pusat yang bersumber dari APBN dan anggaran pendapatan belanja daerah (APBD) atau cost sharing.

    Di PNPM ada yang namanya dana revolving/dana bergulir.
    Soal ada rente atau denda bila telat melunasi atau sama sekali bebas denda, boleh bayar sesuka hati aq tidak tau.
    secara umum dana bergulir tersebut digunakan untuk kebutuhan pertanian dan pengembangan industri rumah tangga (home industry).

    saus: pnpm-mandiri.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=180:d ana-bergulir-spp-pnpm-mp-dairi-rp-26-miliar&catid=17&Itemid=275

    Quote Originally Posted by Ndableg View Post
    "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws",
    Karena yang menjalankan hukum bisa dibeli. Klo dia gak bisa dibeli, ganti aja dengan pejabat baru yang bisa dibeli. Ntah mutasi, sponsor pemilu bagi calon presiden atau klo perlu mosi tidak percaya lewat pembentukan opini publik di media.

    ***

    ---------- Post Merged at 06:38 PM ----------


    Berikut ini q mau share tulisan di buku karangan Bapak HAEKAL. Tulisan ini sepertinya telah dibuat laama sebelum mobil banyak berseliweran. Karena di tulisan ini beliau bukannya menyebut ttg mobil tetapi malah hewan sebagai alat angkutan. Tetapi walau klasik kukira kita masih akan dapat beroleh manfaat.


    BAHAYA RIBA,
    Dalam context pemberi pinjaman vs pelaku usaha yang butuh pinjaman modal.

    Bahaya riba dalam bentuknya yang paling kecil ialah ikut sertanya orang yang tidak bekerja dalam suatu hasil usaha orang lain hanya karena ia sudah meminjamkan uang kepadanya, dengan alasan lagi bahwa dengan meminjamkan itu ia sudah membantu orang lain memperoleh hasil keuntungan. Sebaliknya kalau ini tidak dilakukan si peminjam tidak akan dapat berusaha dan dengan sendirinya tak akan mendapat keuntungan. Kalau hanya ini saja satu-satunya bentuk riba, ini pun tak akan dapat dijadikan alasan.

    Kalau orang yang meminjamkan uang itu mampu menjalankan sendiri, ia tidak akan meminjamkannya kepada orang lain, dan kalau uang itu tetap di tangannya tidak dijalankan dalam usaha, uang itu tidak akan mendatangkan keuntungan. Sebaliknya, sedikit demi sedikit uangnya itu akan habis dimakan pemiliknya sendiri.

    Jika ia akan meminta bantuan orang lain menjalankan uangnya dengan bagi hasil menurut keuntungan yang akan diperoleh, tentu caranya bukan dengan jalan dipinjamkan sebagai modal dengan laba tertentu, melainkan dengan cara si pemilik uang ikut serta dengan orang yang menjalankan uangnya atas dasar bagi untung.

    Kalau si pengusaha beruntung, maka si pemilik modal itu juga akan mendapat bagian keuntungan; kalau rugi, dia pun akan ikut menanggung kerugiannya.

    Sebaliknya kalau kepada pemilik modal ditentukan suatu laba, meskipun yang mengusahakan tidak mendapat keuntungan apa-apa, maka itu merupakan eksploitasi ilegal, pemerasan yang tidak sah.

    ***

    ---------- Post Merged at 06:38 PM ----------


    Pinjaman modal usaha tidaklah sama dg sewa menyewa kost-kostan atau mobil.
    Tidak akan terjadi bahwa harta(uang) itu dapat diperlakukan/dipersewakan seperti menyewakan kost-kostan atau mobil. Orang yang menyewa kost-kostan atau mobil tentu karena ingin dimanfaatkan, yang berarti akan sangat berguna buat dia.

    Uang modal, yang biasanya dipinjam untuk modal usaha... Usaha/Dagang itu senantiasa dihadapkan kepada soal untung dan rugi. Sedang mengenai sewa menyewa, penyewa (baik kost-kostan atau mobil) sedikit sekali yang mengalami kerugian, kecuali karena force majeur.

    Sebaliknya, dengan menentukan bunga uang tunai, dengan lebih kurang tujuh atau sembilan persen, maka ini tidak akan mengubah, bahwa si peminjam dapat terancam oleh kerugian modal, di samping kerugian usahanya sendiri. Apabila di samping itu dia masih juga dituntut dengan bunga, maka inilah yang disebut kejahatan. Akibat ini akan menimbulkan permusuhan, alih-alih persaudaraan. Akan menimbulkan kebencian, bukan cinta kasih. Inilah sumber kesengsaraan dan segala krisis yang diderita umat manusia dewasa ini.


    Disclaimer:
    >uraian di atas tentu tidak (sepenuhnya) cocok bila dipake untuk mengukur hubungan Bank vs Debitur. Dikarenakan Bank adalah lembaga bisnis ...profit oriented ...ada kebutuhan untuk gaji karyawan ...biaya operasional mesin ATM ...transfer pembayaran antar kota sampe antar negara ....menyewakan lemari besi...yang tentu semuanya itu butuh “bensin” untuk bisa menjalankannya.

    Sumber bacaan:
    Muhammad Husain HAEKAL
    Sejarah Hidup Muhammad
    Penerjemah: Ali Audah
    Penerbit: Litera AntarNusa * Pustaka Nasional
    Cetakan Ketigapuluh delapan, Februari 2009
    Halaman 634.
    Last edited by MoonCying; 31-05-2014 at 09:45 PM.

  3. #183
    pelanggan setia Ronggolawe's Avatar
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    lanjutannya

    10. The benevolent banker

    Oliver guessed what was on their minds, but he put on his best front. While he listened, the impetuous Frank stated the case for the group.

    “How can we pay you $1080 when there is only $1000 on the entire island?”

    “That's the interest, my friends. Has not your rate of production increased?”

    “Sure, but the money hasn't. And it's money you're asking for, not our products. You are the only one who can make money. You've made only $1000, and yet you ask $1080. That's an impossibility!”

    “Now listen, fellows. Bankers, for the greater good of the community, always adapt themselves to the conditions of the times. I'm going to require only the interest. Only $80. You will go on holding the capital.”

    “Bless you, Mr. Oliver! Are you going to cancel the $200 each of us owes you?”

    “Oh no! I'm sorry, but a banker never cancels a debt. You still owe me all the money you borrowed. But you'll pay me, each year, only the interest. If you meet the interest payments faithfully each year, I won't push you for the capital. Maybe some won't be able to repay even the interest because of the money changing hands among you. Well, organize yourselves like a nation. Set up a system of money contributions, what we call taxes. Those who have more money will be taxed more; the poor will pay less. See to it that you bring me, in one lump sum, the total of the amount of interest, and I'll be satisfied. And your little nation will thrive.”

    So our boys left, somewhat pacified, but still dubious.

    11. Oliver exults

    Oliver is alone. He is deep in reflection. His thoughts run thus:

    “Business is good. These boys are good workers, but stupid. Their ignorance and naivety is my strength. They ask for money, and I give them the chains of bondage. They give me flowers, and I pick their pockets.

    “True enough, they could mutiny and throw me into the sea. But pshaw! I have their signatures. They're honest. They'll honor their pledges. Honest, hardworking people were put into this world to serve the Financiers.

    “Oh great Mammon! I feel your banking genius coursing through my entire being! Oh, illustrious master! How right you were when you said: `Give me control of a nation's money, and I won't mind who makes its laws.' I am the master of Salvation Island because I control its money.

    “My soul is drunk with enthusiasm and ambition. I feel I could rule the universe. What I, Oliver, have done here, I can do throughout the entire world. Oh! If only I could get off this island! I know how I could govern the world without wearing a crown.

    “My supreme delight would be to instill my philosophy in the minds of those who lead society: bankers, industrialists, politicians, reformers, teachers, journalists — all would be my servants. The masses are content to live in slavery when the elite from among them are constituted to be their overseers.”

    12. The cost of living unbearable

    Meanwhile, things went from bad to worse on Salvation Island. Production was up, and bartering had dropped to a minimum. Oliver collected his interest regularly. The others had to think of setting money aside for him. Thus, money tended to clot instead of circulating freely.

    Those who paid the most in taxes complained against those who paid less. They raised the prices of their goods to compensate for this loss. The unfortunate poor who paid no taxes lamented the high cost of living, and bought less.

    If one took a salaried job with another, he was continually demanding increases in salary in order to meet the mounting cost of living.

    Morale was low. The joy went out of living. No one took an interest in his work. Why should he? Produce sold poorly. When they would make a sale, they had to pay taxes to Oliver. They went without things. It was a real crisis. And they accused one another of wanting in charity, and of being the cause of the high cost of living.

    One day, Harry, sitting in his orchard, pondered over the situation. He finally arrived at the conclusion that this “progress”, born of a refugee's monetary system, had spoiled everything on the island. Unquestionably, all five had their faults, but Oliver's system seemed to have been specifically designed to bring out the worst in human nature.

    Harry decided to demonstrate this to his friends and to unite them for action. He started with Jim, who was not hard to convince. “I'm no genius,” he said, “but for a long time now there's been a bad smell about this banker's system.”

    One by one they came to the same conclusion, and they ended up by deciding to have another conference with Oliver.

    13. Enslaved by Oliver

    A veritable tempest burst about the ears of the banker.

    “Money's scarce on the island, fellow, because you take it away from us! We pay you and pay you, and still we owe you as much as at the beginning. We work our heads off! We've the finest land possible, and yet we're worse off than before the day of your arrival. Debts! Debts! Up to our necks in debts!”

    “Oh! Now boys, be reasonable! Your affairs are booming, and it's thanks to me. A good banking system is a country's best asset. But if it is to work beneficially, you must have faith in the banker. Come to me as you would to a father... Is it more money that you want? Very well. My barrel of gold is good for many thousands of dollars more. See, I'm going to mortgage your latest acquisitions, and lend you another thousand dollars right now.”

    “So! Now our debt goes up to $2000! We are going to have twice as much interest to pay for the rest of our lives!”

    “Well, yes — but I'll lend you more whenever the value of your property increases. And you'll never pay anything but the interest. You'll lump all your debts into one — what we call a consolidated debt. And you can add to the debt, year after year.”

    “And raise the taxes, year after year?”

    “Obviously. But your revenues also increase every year.”

    “So then, the more the country develops each year because of our labor, the more the public debt increases!”

    “Why, of course! Just as in your country – or in any other part of the civilized world for that matter. The degree of a country's civilization is always gauged by the size of its debt to the bankers.”

    14. The wolf devours the lambs

    “And that's a healthy monetary system, Mr. Oliver?”

    “Gentlemen, all sound money is based on gold, and it comes from the banks in the form of debts. The national debt is a good thing. It keeps men from becoming too satisfied. It subjugates governments to the supreme and ultimate wisdom, that which is incarnate in bankers. As a banker, I am the torch of civilization here on your little island. I will dictate your politics and regulate your standard of living.”

    “Mr. Oliver, we're simply uneducated folks, but we don't want that kind of civilization here. We'll not borrow another cent off of you. Sound money or not, we don't want any further transactions with you.”

    “Gentlemen, I deeply regret this very ill-advised decision of yours. But if you break with me, remember, I have your signatures. Repay me everything at once — capital and interest.”

    “But that's impossible, sir. Even if we give you all the money on the island, we still won't be square with you.”

    “I can't help that. Did you or did you not sign? Yes? Very well.

    “By virtue of the sanctity of contracts, I hereby seize your mortgaged property which was what you agreed to at the time you were so happy to have my help. If you don't want to serve willingly the supreme authority of money, then you'll obey by force. You'll continue to exploit the island, but in my interests and under my conditions. Now, get out! You'll get your orders from me tomorrow.”

    15. Control of the press

    Oliver knew that whoever controlled the nation's money, controlled the nation. But he knew also that to maintain that control, it was necessary to keep the people in a state of ignorance, and to distract them by a variety of means.

    Oliver had observed that of the five islanders, two were conservatives and three were liberals. That much had evolved from their evening conversations, especially after they had fallen into slavery. And between the conservatives and those who were liberals, there was a constant friction.

    On occasions, Harry, the most neutral of the five, considering that all had the same needs and aspirations, had suggested the union of the people to put pressure on the authorities. Such a union, Oliver could not tolerate; it would mean the end of his rule. No dictator, financial or otherwise, could stand before a people united and educated.

    Consequently, Oliver set himself to foment, as much as possible, political strife between them.

    The refugee put his press to work, turning out two weekly newspapers, “The Sun”, for the Liberals, and “The Star”, for the Conservatives.

    The general tenor of “The Sun” was: “If you are no longer master, it is because of those traitorous Conservatives who have sold out to big business.”

    That of “The Star”: “The ruinous state of business and the national debt can be traced directly to the political responsibility of those unmentionable Liberals.”

    16. A priceless bit of floatsam

    One day, Tom, the prospector, found on a small beach, hidden by tall grass at one end of the island, a lifeboat, empty except for a trunk in good condition lying in the bottom of it.

    He opened the trunk. Among the articles within, a sort of album caught his eye: “The First Year of Social Credit”. Between the covers he found the first of a Social Credit publication.

    Curious, Tom sat down and began to read the volume. His interest grew; his face lit up.

    “Well, just look at this!” he cried out loud. “This is something we should have known a long time ago.”

    “Money gets its value, not from gold, but from the products which that money buys.

    “Simply put, money should be a sort of accountancy, credits passing from one account to another according to purchases and sales. The sum total of money will depend upon the sum total of production.

    “Each time production increases, there is a corresponding increase in the amount of money. Never at any time should interest be paid on new money. Progress is marked, not by an increase in the public debt, but by the issuance of an equal dividend to each individual... Prices are adjusted to the general purchasing power by a coefficient of prices. Social Credit...”

    But Tom could no longer contain himself. He got up and set off at a run, the book in his hands, to share this glorious discovery with his four comrades.

    17. Money — elementary accounting

    So Tom became the teacher. He taught the others what he had learned from that God-sent Social Credit publication.

    “This,” he said, “is what we can do without waiting for a banker and his keg of gold, nor without underwriting a debt.

    “I open an account in the name of each one of you. In the right hand column are the credits which increase your account; to the left are the debits which subtract from your account.

    “Each wants $200 to begin with. Very well. We write $200 to the credit of each. Each immediately has $200.

    “Frank buys some goods from Paul for $10. I deduct $10 from Frank, leaving him $190. I add $10 to Paul, and he now has $210.

    “Jim buys from Paul to the amount of $8. I deduct from Jim $8, leaving him $192. Paul now has $218.

    “Paul buys wood from Frank for $15. I deduct $15 from Paul, leaving $203. I add $15 to Frank's account, and it goes back to $205.

    “And so we continue; from one account to another, in the same fashion that paper banknotes go from one man's pocket to another's.

    “If someone needs money to expand production, we issue him the necessary amount of new credit. Once he has sold his products, he repays the sum to the credit fund. The same with public works; paid for by new credits.

    “Likewise, each one's account is periodically increased, but without taking credits from anyone, in order that all may benefit from the progress society makes. That's the national dividend. In this fashion, money becomes an instrument of service.”

    18. The banker's despair

    Everyone understood. The members of this little community became Social Crediters. The following day, Oliver, the banker, received a letter signed by the five:

    “Dear sir! Without the slightest necessity you have plunged us into debt and exploited us. We don't need you anymore to run our money system. From now on, we'll have all the money we need without gold, debts, nor thieves. We are establishing, at once, the system of Social Credit on the island. The national dividend is going to replace the national debt.

    “If you insist on being repaid, we can repay you all the money you gave us. But not a cent more. You cannot lay claim to that which you have not made.”

    Oliver was in despair. His empire was crumbling. His dreams shattered. What could he do? Arguments would be futile. The five were now Social Crediters: money and credit were now not more mysterious to them than they were to Oliver.

    “Oh!” said Oliver. “These men have been won to Social Credit! Their doctrine will spread far more quickly than mine. Should I beg forgiveness? Become one of them? I, a financier and a banker? Never! Rather, I shall try and put as much distance between them and me as I can!”

    19. The fraud unmasked

    To protect themselves against any future claim by Oliver, our five men decided to make him sign a document attesting that he again possessed all he had when he first arrived on the island.

    An inventory was taken; the boat, the oars, the little press, and the famous barrel of gold.

    Oliver had to reveal where he had hidden the gold. Our boys hoisted it from the hole with considerably less respect than the day they had unloaded it from the boat. Social Credit had taught them to despise gold.

    The prospector, who was helping to lift the barrel, found it surprisingly light for gold. If the barrel was full, he told the others, there was something in it besides gold.

    The impetuous Frank didn't waste a moment; a blow of the axe, and the contents of the barrel was exposed.

    Gold? Not so much as a grain of it! Just rocks — plain, worthless rocks! Our men couldn't get over the shock.

    “Don't tell us that he could bamboozle us to this extent!”

    “Were we such muttonheads as to go into raptures over the mere mention of gold?”

    “Did we mortgage all of our possessions for a few pieces of paper based on a few pounds of rocks? It's a robbery, compounded with lies!”

    “To think that we sulked and almost hated one another all because of such a fraud! That devil!”

    Furious, Frank raised his axe. In great haste, the banker has already taken flight towards the forest.
    "And this world of armchair bloggers who created a generation of critics instead of leaders, I'm actually doing something. Right here, right now. For the city. For my country. And I'm not doing it alone. You're damn right I'm the hero."

    --Oliver Queen (Smallville)

  4. #184
    pelanggan tetap Alip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronggolawe
    9 koin tadi dibuang diikatkan saja ke punggung penyu lalu penyu-penyu tadi dilepas kelaut.
    ... anak-anaknya Perdana Mentri Kura-kura dari Laut Timur ya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronggolawe
    paling gampangnya, bikin saja mading yang bisa di pahat sebagai neraca keuangan masing-masing penghuni pulau.
    Betul sekali, dan itulah fungsi yang dilakukan bank sekarang ini. Rekonsiliasi antara debit dan kredit di dalam kegiatan perekonomian, uangnya sendiri malah gak hadir dalam bentuk riil. Hal inilah yang sebenarnya menjadi cikal bakal perbankan.

    Cuma kebayang ukuran madingnya kalau rakyatnya 200 juta dan transaksinya trilyunan...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronggolawe
    yang dibutuhkan cuma alat tukar kok... apapun alat tukar itu, yang penting tiap orang sadar hak dan kewajiban masing-masing, dan tidak seorang pun mengambil keuntungan berlandaskan ketamakan lewat penguasaan sumber alat tukar
    Setuju... jadi tidak ada masalah kan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronggolawe
    dan tukang kayu si pembuat mading, ngga boleh minta sewa atas mading yang dibuat nya
    kok gak boleeehhh... dia mengorbankan waktu dan bahan bakunya untuk membuat mading tersebut, memelihara secara rutin dan ketika transaksinya makin banyak dan rumit, dia mungkin berperan sebagai orang yang mevalidasi keabsahan data di mading. Dia boleh bekerja sosial dengan madingnya kalau dia mau... tapi kalau dia mau mengambil pungutan, itu hak dia doooong. Justru zalim-lah dua belas orang sisanya kalau menuntut si tukang kayu kerja tanpa imbalan.

    ***

    Quote Originally Posted by ndableg
    Masalahnya bukan di kertasnya mas, karena skrg sudah jadi plastik. Tapi nilai apa yg membackup kertas berharga itu. Selama segalanya dijalankan dengan fair, tentu saja semua senang.
    Nilai yang membackup suatu mata uang fiat adalah kredibilitas perekonomian yang mengeluarkannya. Kita sekarang tidak mau menerima uang Rwanda yang untuk beli roti sepotong saja perlu uang kertas satu kantong plastik besar, tapi kita tentu boleh mempercayai uang kertas negara yang memiliki ekonomi stabil. Kenapa? Karena kita percaya uang kertas tersebut juga dipercaya oleh orang lain... Katakanlah rupiah, selama kondisi Indonesia stabil, terlihat kemajuan ekonomi yang baik, maka kertas/plastik/digital rupiah akan dipercaya orang. Seseorang akan memegang rupiah karena dia tahu tukang sayur di pasar juga percaya.

    Sebagai pembanding, katakanlah uang kertas rupiah di-backup oleh emas, lalu perekonomian Indonesia hancur dan negara ini jatuh ke dalam anarki apocalypse seperti di film “the book of Eli”... uang kertas tentu tidak berlaku lagi, tapi begitu pula emas. Apa gunanya emas sekilo di dunia apocalypse begitu? Yang lebih berlaku adalah barang-barang yang memiliki kegunaan riil seperti bahan makanan, selimut, senjata, mesiu, peluru, dan sebagainya. Kalau sudah begini, pada hakikatnya backup sebuah mata uang adalah stabilitas ekonominya, bukan cadangan emasnya.

    Atau, anggaplah ekonomi berbasis emas sedang stabil dan berkembang, uang kertas yang didukung emas sekalipun akan mengalami penurunan nilai juga kalau dicetak terus menerus untuk memenuhi kebutuhan uang masyarakat tapi jumlah emasnya tidak bertambah.

    Di jaman dulu triknya adalah menarik uang logam emas, mencairkannya, lalu mencetak ulang dengan kadar emas yang lebih sedikit... dengan demikian jumlah kepingnya jadi lebih banyak dan mencukupi kebutuhan. Tapi seiring pertumbuhan ekonomi, sampailah pada titik tertentu dimana kadar emasnya terlalu sedikit sehingga biaya pembuatan kepingannya malah lebih mahal... akhirnya pemerintahnya bangkrut atau uangnya jadi tidak berharga lagi.

    Satu-satunya jalan uang kertas/plastik/digital yang dibackup oleh emas bisa bertahan tanpa mengalami inflasi dengan jumlah emas yang tetap adalah jangan mencetak uang baru... alias ekonomi nggak boleh tumbuh. Kalau sudah begini pertumbuhan ekonomi sangat tergantung pada produktivitas tambang emas...

    Kasus goldsmith yang diceritakan ndableg justru adalah ilustrasi yang baik dari konsep ini. Si Goldsmith adalah cerminan dari pemerintah yang menggunakan mata uang berbasis emas tapi mencetak uang kertas tidak karu-karuan... jadilah dia rugi sendiri.

    Saya tahu yang dimaksud adalah praktek meminjamkan lebih dari simpanan, yang dalam perekonomian disebut private lending, tapi perbankan tidak bekerja seperti itu. Seorang goldsmith yang bisa seenaknya membuat nota emas di jaman ini hanya bisa ditandingi oleh wewenang pemerintah, bukan oleh bank swasta. Bank swasta kan tidak bisa mencetak uang? Jadi analoginya lebih cocok untuk kasus pemerintah. Bank swasta memiliki ijin untuk meminjamkan lebih dari cadangan uang yang mereka miliki sampai batas tertentu, dan ini merupakan bagian dari rencana pemerintah mengatur uang beredar.

    Pemerintahnya korup zalim dan ditunggangi Yahudi? Jangan kuatir... dalam mata uang berbasis emas sekalipun mereka tetap bisa berbuat kekacauan kok... jadi ini urusan pelakunya, bukan sistemnya...

    Hal yang sama untuk dongengnya Kakang Tumenggung Ronggolawe yang Insya Allah akan saya tanggapi lebih kumplit setelah diterjemahkan nanti...

    ***

    ... dan btw, perubahan dollar dari reserve note menjadi fiat money bukan hasil konspirasi diam-diam yang seolah-olah masyarakat terlambat sadar bahwa ada perubahan tulisan di lembaran dollar mereka. Perubahan ini diputuskan dalam konperensi Bretton-Woods tahun 1944 yang dihadiri oleh 44 negara dan merupakan hasil dari diskusi panjang para ekonom sejak tahun 30’an... banyak timbang-timbang dan hitung-hitung yang sudah dilakukan lama sekali sebelum akhirnya sampai ke sistem fiat money ini, dan semuanya transparan dan bisa diikuti secara logika ekonomi makro. Bahkan segala kemungkinan jelek yang ditulis oleh kaum sinister yang dikutip di sini juga jadi bagian dari bahasan mereka kok...
    "Mille millions de mille milliards de mille sabords!"

  5. #185
    pelanggan setia Ronggolawe's Avatar
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    Cuma kebayang ukuran madingnya kalau rakyatnya 200 juta dan transaksinya trilyunan...
    lha... bikin saja neracauangelektronik[dot]kom

    setiap lelaki dewasa, selain dapat ID Card, menda
    pat mobile access kesitus tersebut, untuk mengeta
    hui berapa credit yang dia punya, dan setiap tran
    saksi dicatat secara elektronik

    logikanya sih, 10tahun lagi kita sudah punya tek
    nologi untuk itu, masalahnya cuma apakah kita bi
    sa menghapus ketamakan pada diri segelintir orang
    yang memegang kekuasaan modal?
    "And this world of armchair bloggers who created a generation of critics instead of leaders, I'm actually doing something. Right here, right now. For the city. For my country. And I'm not doing it alone. You're damn right I'm the hero."

    --Oliver Queen (Smallville)

  6. #186
    Chief Cook ndableg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alip View Post
    jadi ini urusan pelakunya, bukan sistemnya...
    Kalo sistemnya mengijinkan utk pelaku bisa melakukan kelakuannya, ya perlu diperbaiki.
    Itu makanya semua sistem perlu diupgrade sesuai dgn jamannya, kalo enggak dibobol hacker/virus. Penjahat itu di mana2.
    Last edited by ndableg; 01-06-2014 at 04:21 AM.

  7. #187
    pelanggan tetap Alip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronggolawe View Post
    lha... bikin saja neracauangelektronik[dot]kom

    setiap lelaki dewasa, selain dapat ID Card, mendapat mobile access kesitus tersebut, untuk mengetahui berapa credit yang dia punya, dan setiap tran
    saksi dicatat secara elektronik.

    logikanya sih, 10tahun lagi kita sudah punya teknologi untuk itu, masalahnya cuma apakah kita bisa menghapus ketamakan pada diri segelintir orang
    yang memegang kekuasaan modal?
    Kita memang mengantisipasi pada akhirnya akan sampai ke sana bahkan sebenarnya teknologinya sudah ada, proses budayanya yang belum sampai (dan tidak cuma laki-laki dewasa saja, perempuan juga doong).

    Kalau uang digital saja wajar, maka uang kertas saat ini wajar juga bukan? Tidak perlu disengiti sebagai riba hanya karena dia bukan dinar dan dirham dari jaman romantisme klasik dulu ...

    Adapun mengenai keserakahan pemilik modal... seorang pemilik modal yang tidak hidup di negeri sosialis memiliki hak penuh untuk melakukan usaha menggunakan modal yang dia miliki dengan cara yang dia anggap layak untuk mengumpulkan modal lebih lanjut. Para entrepreneur inilah yang menyebabkan majunya perekonomian karena dalam prosesnya dia akan melakukan produksi dan melibatkan tenaga kerja. Ketamakan macam ini tidak dilarang sejauh pelaksanaannya tidak melanggar hukum.

    Quote Originally Posted by ndableg View Post
    Kalo sistemnya mengijinkan utk pelaku bisa melakukan kelakuannya, ya perlu diperbaiki.
    Itu makanya semua sistem perlu diupgrade sesuai dgn jamannya, kalo enggak dibobol hacker/virus. Penjahat itu di mana2.
    Betul sekali... dan kita bisa lihat bahwa sistem emas yang sudah usang diganti oleh sistem uang kertas dan kelak mungkin akan diganti oleh sistem digital murni seperti diramalkan oleh Kakang Tumenggung Ronggolawe di atas. Selebihnya adalah usaha perbaikan terus menerus sambil jalan. 'Kan sudah banyak penjahat perekonomian yang ditangkepin, serta hukum dagang dan perbankan juga diupgrade terus.
    "Mille millions de mille milliards de mille sabords!"

  8. #188
    pelanggan tetap Alip's Avatar
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    Sudah dua puluh menit belum yaaaa?

    Buat [MENTION=1341]MoonCying[/MENTION], pendapat Pak Haekal itu adalah pendapat pribadi kan ya? karena dia tidak menyebutkan dalil apapun... jadi boleh dong kalau ada yang berpendapat kebalikannya...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCying View Post
    Uang modal, yang biasanya dipinjam untuk modal usaha... Usaha/Dagang itu senantiasa dihadapkan kepada soal untung dan rugi. Sedang mengenai sewa menyewa, penyewa (baik kost-kostan atau mobil) sedikit sekali yang mengalami kerugian, kecuali karena force majeur.
    Tidak juga...

    Uang bisa disewa untuk keperluan non usaha alias konsumsi murni, seperti misalnya untuk membeli kendaraan atau rumah yang dipakai sendiri, atau kalau peminjamnya rada goblok, untuk hura-hura (ini sih gak bisa ke bank, paling pinjem ke keluarga yang gak tegaan ). Di sisi lain, kendaraan atau rumah bisa juga disewa untuk keperluan usaha, misalnya untuk keperluan kantor dan mobil operasional, dan proses penyewaan ini dihadapkan juga pada untung-rugi. Jadi argumen Pak Haekal dalam hal ini gugur, tidak ada perbedaan antara uang dan asset lainnya.

    Jika biaya sewa (rente = rent = sewa) tidak bisa diterapkan ke uang dan hanya boleh sistem bagi hasil, maka prinsip keadilan menuntut hal yang sama harus diterapkan juga pada barang modal lainnya. Seorang pengusaha tidak boleh menyewa mobil atau rumah, dia harus mendekati pemilik mobil atau rumah dan menawarkan bagi hasil, bukan konsep sewa. Tentunya ini menyebabkan biaya modalnya menjadi lebih tinggi seperti pernah kita obrolkan sebelumnya, akibatnya kesempatan berusaha jadi makin susah dan secara agregat suatu perekonomian akan mengalami biaya tinggi...
    "Mille millions de mille milliards de mille sabords!"

  9. #189
    pelanggan setia Ronggolawe's Avatar
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    Kalau uang digital saja wajar, maka uang kertas saat ini wajar juga bukan? Tidak perlu disengiti sebagai riba hanya karena dia bukan dinar dan dirham dari jaman romantisme klasik dulu ...
    kekeke... gw kan nggo bawa-bawa dinar-dirham,
    mbah

    masalahnya, seperti contoh Oliver si bankir yang
    dalam kutipan yang gw bawakan, Uang Kertas
    yang beredar di masyarakat, status nya minjam
    dari Bank Sentral dan secara berkali Bank Sentral
    menagih bunga atas pinjaman tersebut

    see...
    - untuk transaksi, kita butuh alat tukar.
    - alat tukar disediakan oleh Bank Sentral.
    - status alat tukar dari Bank Sentral tersebut ada
    lah pinjaman, yang ada bunganya.

    lah... kalau untuk transaksi masyarakat dipinjami
    uang 10^15, dengan bunga ringan setahun 10^12
    yang berarti 0,1% saja (kecil banget kan?) tetapi
    sampai akhir tahun uang yang beredar tetap saja
    10^15, bukan 10^15 + 10^12 karena masyarakat
    tidak bisa nyetak uang sendiri, jadi bagaimana bu
    nga tersebut bisa dibayar oleh masyarakat?

    dalam kasus Oliver si Bankir tadi, gampang saja,
    masyarakat ngga perlu bayar pokoknya, jadi cu
    kup bayar bunganya 10^12 tadi.... sehingga uang
    yang beredar menjadi 10^15 - 10^12

    tetapi.... berkat pinjaman uang dari Bank Sentral
    tersebut, perekonomian meningkat, sehingga uang
    10^15 - 10^12 tadi tidak cukup untuk kebutuhan
    transaksi masyarakat, sehingga masyarakat menga
    lami kelangkaan alat tukar..... oh ternyata kembali
    Bank Sentral menunjukkan keajaibannya, setelah
    menghitung tingkat pertumbuhan ekonomi yang 10%
    maka Bank Sentral berbaik hati memberikan pinjaman
    uang sebesar 10^14, tentunya dengan bunga tadi

    dan terus saja begitu... sistem membangun keperca
    yaan terhadap Bank Sentral, dan Bankir pengendali
    Bank Sentral menikmati Bunga Anual yang harus di
    bayarkan masyarakat....

    ---------- Post Merged at 07:17 AM ----------

    ataukah cerita Oliver si Bankir itu cuma jualan Teori
    Konspirasi, bukan fakta di lapangan?
    "And this world of armchair bloggers who created a generation of critics instead of leaders, I'm actually doing something. Right here, right now. For the city. For my country. And I'm not doing it alone. You're damn right I'm the hero."

    --Oliver Queen (Smallville)

  10. #190
    pelanggan tetap Alip's Avatar
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    Oh, itu memang fakta di lapangan Kakang Tumenggung, tapi di Eropa abad pertengahan dulu, dan justru jadi pemicu lahirnya bank swasta dan private lending untuk menjawab tirani dari penguasa absolut semacam Oliver ...

    ... jadi demi kepentingan bersama dan aturan , kita tunggu dulu terjemahannya yaaaa...

  11. #191
    Chief Barista cha_n's Avatar
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    wow...diskusi yang keren banget...
    menyimak dulu
    ...bersama kesusahan ada kemudahan...

    “Aku Rela di Penjara asalkan bersama buku, karena dengan buku aku bebas.” ― -Mohammad Hatta
    “Aku Rela di Penjara asalkan bersama akses internet, karena dengan internet aku bebas.” ― -cha_n

    My Little Journey to India

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by pak Alip View Post
    kendaraan atau rumah bisa juga disewa untuk keperluan usaha, misalnya untuk keperluan kantor dan mobil operasional, dan proses penyewaan ini dihadapkan juga pada untung-rugi.
    Kayaknya nggak deh ....
    Dalam proses penyewaan, penyewa hampir gak ada resiko rugi.
    Klo misal mobil terserempet, atau rumah kebakar ...malahan yang rugi yang punya rumah atau mobil.
    :
    .
    Penyewa bisa rugi itu klo nyewanya di lahan yang ndak bener.
    Misal menyewa kaplingan di sepanjang rel Kereta Api.
    Udah terlanjur bayar satu tahun, baru 6 bulan .....ehh PT. KAI ngadain penertiban.
    Nha itu, baru si penyewa rugi.

    Seorang penjual baju.
    Mempunyai kesempatan untuk menempati ruko, menggunakan mobil untuk ‘kulakan’ barang dagangan itu sudah mengambil manfaat.

    Mengenai usaha jualan bajunya kurang laku, lalu mengalami kerugian itu lain soal.
    :
    :
    .
    Nyewa ruko, bisa ditempati.
    Nyewa mobil, bisa dipake jalan-jalan.
    :
    :
    .
    Nyewa uang ....
    klo tidak dibelanjakan ‘kan uang gak bisa dinikmati ....
    :
    .
    Uang = yang dipakai untuk beli barang/jasa.
    Rumah, Mobil = Jasa yang dibeli.
    ---------- Post Merged at 02:30 PM ----------


    OOT
    Btw, dongeng GoldSmith yang diceritakan kop Ndableg & Ronggolawe .....di youtube sebenarnya udah lama lho ada film animasinya.
    Saus: youtube.com/watch?v=Kf8KFdnwBGY&list=PLEA94C43FDDAFACB8

    Judul : The American dream Film-[English Subtitles]
    Pengupload : amy2x

    Quote Originally Posted by Amy2x View Post
    All of us Americans strive for the American Dream,and this film shows you why your dream is getting farther and farther away.Do you know how your money is created?Or how banking works?Why did housing prices skyrocket and then plunge?Do you really know what the Federal Reserve System is and how it affects you every single day?You will be challenged to investigate some very entrenched and powerful institutions in this nation,and hopefully encouraged to help get our nation back on track.
    Terjemahan:
    Apa kamu tahu bagaimana uang dibuat?
    Bagaimana Bank “bekerja”?
    Mengapa harga rumah membumbung tinggi lalu “terjun bebas”?
    Apa kamu tahu apa itu lembaga pencetak uang dan apa pengaruhnya bagi hidupmu setiap hari?
    Kamu ditantang untuk memahami “eksploitasi” yang mencengkeram kita hari ini & memberi dukungan agar negara dapat kembali berfungsi sebagaimana seharusnya negara berfungsi.
    Last edited by MoonCying; 01-06-2014 at 03:43 PM.

  13. #193
    Chief Cook ndableg's Avatar
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    Sori balik lagi ke jawaban sebelumnya. Byk yg ga cocok kek nya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alip View Post
    Nilai yang membackup suatu mata uang fiat adalah kredibilitas perekonomian yang mengeluarkannya. Sebagai pembanding, katakanlah uang kertas rupiah di-backup oleh emas, lalu perekonomian Indonesia hancur dan negara ini jatuh ke dalam anarki apocalypse seperti di film “the book of Eli”... uang kertas tentu tidak berlaku lagi, tapi begitu pula emas. Apa gunanya emas sekilo di dunia apocalypse begitu?
    Coba anda bawa emasnya ke malaysia atau amerika.. Masih laku kan?
    Dulu hitler jg ke negara2 yg takluk ngambil2in emas.

    Atau, anggaplah ekonomi berbasis emas sedang stabil dan berkembang, uang kertas yang didukung emas sekalipun akan mengalami penurunan nilai juga kalau dicetak terus menerus untuk memenuhi kebutuhan uang masyarakat tapi jumlah emasnya tidak bertambah.

    Di jaman dulu triknya adalah menarik uang logam emas, mencairkannya, lalu mencetak ulang dengan kadar emas yang lebih sedikit... dengan demikian jumlah kepingnya jadi lebih banyak dan mencukupi kebutuhan. Tapi seiring pertumbuhan ekonomi, sampailah pada titik tertentu dimana kadar emasnya terlalu sedikit sehingga biaya pembuatan kepingannya malah lebih mahal... akhirnya pemerintahnya bangkrut atau uangnya jadi tidak berharga lagi.

    Satu-satunya jalan uang kertas/plastik/digital yang dibackup oleh emas bisa bertahan tanpa mengalami inflasi dengan jumlah emas yang tetap adalah jangan mencetak uang baru... alias ekonomi nggak boleh tumbuh. Kalau sudah begini pertumbuhan ekonomi sangat tergantung pada produktivitas tambang emas...
    Mosok negara buntu amat. Mungkin terjadi kalo cuman ada 1 negara di dunia.
    Penghasilan negara bukan dari emas, penghasilan negara adalah dari perdagangan. Emas di suatu negara adalah hanya sbg back up harta cadangan negara. Dan mata uang yg beredar disesuaikan dgn jumlah emas dalam cadangan negara.
    Menambah emas bukan dari nggali2 doang, bisa saja bertukar emas, dgn minyak atau hasil bumi misalnya. Bertambahlah harta negara.

    ... dan btw, perubahan dollar dari reserve note menjadi fiat money bukan hasil konspirasi diam-diam yang seolah-olah masyarakat terlambat sadar bahwa ada perubahan tulisan di lembaran dollar mereka. Perubahan ini diputuskan dalam konperensi Bretton-Woods tahun 1944 yang dihadiri oleh 44 negara dan merupakan hasil dari diskusi panjang para ekonom sejak tahun 30’an... banyak timbang-timbang dan hitung-hitung yang sudah dilakukan lama sekali sebelum akhirnya sampai ke sistem fiat money ini, dan semuanya transparan dan bisa diikuti secara logika ekonomi makro. Bahkan segala kemungkinan jelek yang ditulis oleh kaum sinister yang dikutip di sini juga jadi bagian dari bahasan mereka kok...
    Ah masa sih? Ini dari webnya mereka sendiri.

    Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver, or any other commodity. Federal Reserve notes have not been redeemable in gold since January 30, 1934, when the Congress amended Section 16 of the Federal Reserve Act to read: "The said [Federal Reserve] notes shall be obligations of the United States….They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank." Federal Reserve notes have not been redeemable in silver since the 1960s.
    Last edited by ndableg; 01-06-2014 at 07:30 PM.

  14. #194
    Chief Cook ndableg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alip View Post
    Oh, itu memang fakta di lapangan Kakang Tumenggung, tapi di Eropa abad pertengahan dulu, dan justru jadi pemicu lahirnya bank swasta dan private lending untuk menjawab tirani dari penguasa absolut semacam Oliver ...
    Betul.. dari yang gampang ketauan menjadi tidak terlihat ada kesalahan.

  15. #195
    pelanggan setia kandalf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by etca View Post
    [OOT]
    mau jawab postingan [MENTION=41]kandalf[/MENTION]
    Tidak ada hubungannya dengan riba. Yesus membalikkan meja penukar uang dan bangkubangku pedagang
    Karena Bait Allah yang seyogyanya digunakan untuk beribadah dan berdoa
    Malah digunakan sebagai ajang transaksi perdagangan.
    [/OOT]
    [MENTION=6]etca[/MENTION]
    Matius 21:12 Lalu Yesus masuk ke Bait Allah dan mengusir semua orang yang berjual beli di halaman Bait Allah. Ia membalikkan meja-meja penukar uang dan bangku-bangku pedagang merpati
    Matius 21:13 dan berkata kepada mereka: "Ada tertulis: Rumah-Ku akan disebut rumah doa. Tetapi kamu menjadikannya sarang penyamun.

    Cetak tebal dari saya.
    http://alkitab.sabda.org/verse.php?chapter=21&verse=12
    http://alkitab.sabda.org/verse.php?b...er=21&verse=13

    ambil salah satu tafsir di sini http://alkitab.sabda.org/commentary....er=21&verse=12
    pelataran luar bagi orang bukan Yahudi juga ditempati oleh kandang tempat hewan yang akan dipersembahkan dapat dibeli dan meja tempat mata uang asing dapat ditukarkan dengan mata uang syikal untuk dipersembahkan. Pasar yang merupakan sumber pemerasan yang hebat ini dikelola oleh keluarga imam besar Anas. Sesaat sebelum perang di antara orang Yahudi dengan Romawi, kebencian umum terhadap pasar-pasar Anas ini telah mengakibatkan penghapusannya (lihat Edersheim, Life and Times of Jesus, I. 367-372)
    Yang dibalikkan tadi ada di halaman Bait Allah alias di pelataran, bukan di dalam bagian suci Bait Allah yang diperuntukkan berdoa.
    Tapi baiklah, asumsikan bahwa halaman Bait Allah juga merupakan daerah suci yang tidak boleh digunakan untuk keperluan hal lain. Masih ada lanjutan dari ayat membalik meja penukar uang tadi.

    Di ayat lanjutannya kesalahannya bukan sekedar berdagang di halaman Bait Allah karena Yesus menyebut pasar di pelataran tadi sebagai 'Sarang Penyamun', hinaan yang sangat kasar bila kesalahannya hanya berdagang tidak pada tempatnya. Kesalahan para 'pedagang' itu lebih besar dari itu.

    Pasar di halaman Bait Allah tadi bukan pasar biasa. Orang-orang Yahudi membuat persembahan hanya dan hanya di Bait Allah. Tetapi uang yang beredar saat itu kebanyakan uang Romawi yang memiliki wajah kaisar dan itu haram hukumnya. Karena itu ada jasa penukar uang. Penukaran uang di sini pasti dilakukan secara timpang alias ditukar dengan nilai syikal yang tidak semestinya dan pengguna jasa mau tidak mau harus menukar di tempat itu karena dia butuh uang syikal. Di sini terdapat keuntungan uang atas uang.

    Definisi riba di utas (thread) ini masih didebatkan,
    contoh di Islam memang melibatkan utang, tetapi konsepnya adalah mengambil keuntungan atas transaksi uang. Meminjam uang lalu mengharapkan uang lain atas uang yang dipinjamkan.

    Jadi iya,
    peristiwa itu erat kaitannya dengan topik riba.
    Lomba peluk2an di Citos: 30 November 2013
    Lomba dorong2an di Candra Naya (dkt Glodok): 8 Desember 2013

  16. #196
    Dalam perbankan saat ini

    Saat bagi keuntungan, perbedaan antara Riba dengan Bagi Hasil sangat tipis

    tapi, di saat RUGI
    di saat itulah, nampak jelas perbedaan Riba dgn bagi hasil

    Banker gak mau rugi, dia harus menyita barang JAMINAN dari yg berhutang

    ---------- Post Merged at 09:06 AM ----------

    Dalam perbankan saat ini

    Saat bagi keuntungan, perbedaan antara Riba dengan Bagi Hasil sangat tipis

    tapi, di saat RUGI
    di saat itulah, nampak jelas perbedaan Riba dgn bagi hasil

    Banker gak mau rugi, dia harus menyita barang JAMINAN dari yg berhutang
    Gambang suling, ngumandhang swarane
    tulat tulit, kepenak unine
    uuuunine.. mung..nreyuhake ba-
    reng lan kentrung ke-
    tipung suling, sigrak kendhangane

  17. #197
    Jaminan yang 100% atau lebih dari pinjaman mah untuk kalangan kecil.
    Kalo penguasaha mah jaminannya seringnya dibawah nilai pinjaman.
    Kan rugi juga tuh Bank walau telah menyita jaminan.

  18. #198
    ^dan klo bank rugi, di bail out nya pake uang rakyat.

    Penguasaha : penguasa yg merangkap jadi pesaing usaha penduduk negeri. Klo misal dilegalkan bisa menang tender terus nih. Tapi secara formal sepertinya dilarang koq ini.

  19. #199
    Bail out nggak mesti. Dibiarin bangkrut juga bisa.

  20. #200
    coba kita kesampingkan dulu dikotomi bank syariah dan non-syariah
    lalu kita lihat prakteknya secara apel to apel

    spt yng sudah saya tulis diatas bhw
    - bank syariah ternyata jg mensyaratkan jaminan/agunan dng selektif (ketat)
    dalam kasus aplikasi kredit usaha, contoh bank Muamalat misalnya
    * bank non-syariah jg menganut prinsip ini sbg bentuk ke-hati2-an

    - prinsip pembagian keuntungan dng prosentase nisbah jg ditetapkan didepan (berdasarkan negosiasi)
    tergantung jenis usaha dan tingkat resikonya.
    * bank non-syariah jg demikian, pembagian keuntungan direfleksikan dlm bentuk "bunga" pinjaman
    besarannya jg dapat di negosiasikan, tergantung jenis usaha dan tingkat resikonya


    sekali lagi, sampai sejauh ini
    saya belum melihat perbedaan mendasar antara bank syariah dan non-syariah
    dalam hal praktek pemberiaan pinjaman/kredit untuk modal usaha
    kecuali perbedaan2 istilah yng sejatinya secara esensi sama, cmiiw
    mbregegeg ugeg-ugeg hemel-hemel sak dulito

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